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Title:
[css-values] Make min and max value optional in `clamp()` Β· Issue #9713 Β· w3c/csswg-drafts
Description:
As we know, we added clamp() because doing clamping logic with min() and max() is counterintuitive. However, this doesn't only apply when you have both a min and a max, itβs still counterintuit...
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[css-values] make min css working group css-values-4 csswg resolution adds cognitive overhead full irc log comment metadata assignees added clamp pretty strongly opposed comma-elision rules people regularly write max values optional agenda+ upper/lower bounds work milestone relationships make min max values values lower bounds make pretty uncontroversial code generation introduce upper dummy min pointless computation empty tokens small change move forwards call time obvious win good reason terms mental gymnastics completely intuitive people aware omitted argument confusion argument clamping logic maximum number bound makes github minimum threshold easy win discussion π react introducing clamp clamp double alternative syntax adding syntax min
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- Why not just use max or min when you want to clamp from one side?
Schema {πΊοΈ}
DiscussionForumPosting:
context:https://schema.org
headline:[css-values] Make min and max value optional in `clamp()`
articleBody:As we know, we added [`clamp()`](https://drafts.csswg.org/css-values/#comp-func) because doing clamping logic with `min()` and `max()` is counterintuitive.
However, this doesn't only apply when you have *both* a min and a max, itβs _still_ counterintuitive when you only have one of two. I keep finding myself using `clamp()` with dummy min or max values so that I can only use it for max or min respectively, which not only adds cognitive overhead, but also pointless computation.
A nice little improvement could be to make the min and max values optional via `none` keywords:
[Before](https://drafts.csswg.org/css-values/#calc-syntax):
```
<clamp()> = clamp( <calc-sum>#{3} )
```
After:
```
<clamp()> = clamp( [ <calc-sum> | none ] , <calc-sum> , [ <calc-sum> | none ])
```
<details>
<summary>
Alternative syntax: Using empty tokens for the omitted argument
</summary>
```
<clamp()> = clamp( <calc-sum>? , <calc-sum> , <calc-sum>? )
```
Note that this is different from `clamp( <calc-sum>#{2, 3} )`: we still need empty tokens for the missing arguments, otherwise we wouldn't be able to disambiguate. I.e. `clamp(3rem, 10vh)` would not be valid, it would need to be either `clamp(3rem, 10vh, )` or `clamp( , 3rem, 10vh)`.
If we go that route we'd also need to add an exception to require the comma with empty arguments, per normal grammar specification rules the comma would be omitted, making disambiguation impossible.
When I first posted this I thought going the empty token route would be ideal, as `none` seemed too verbose, but I now think the clarity hit is not worth it, especially if we take the editorial challenges into account.
</details>
Hopefully this is such a small change we may be able to wedge it in css-values-4.
Edit: Agenda+ after discussing it with @fantasai and @tabatkins β this seems like such an easy win and pretty uncontroversial so we could move forwards with hopefully very little call time.
author:
url:https://github.com/LeaVerou
type:Person
name:LeaVerou
datePublished:2023-12-15T15:07:59.000Z
interactionStatistic:
type:InteractionCounter
interactionType:https://schema.org/CommentAction
userInteractionCount:8
url:https://github.com/9713/csswg-drafts/issues/9713
context:https://schema.org
headline:[css-values] Make min and max value optional in `clamp()`
articleBody:As we know, we added [`clamp()`](https://drafts.csswg.org/css-values/#comp-func) because doing clamping logic with `min()` and `max()` is counterintuitive.
However, this doesn't only apply when you have *both* a min and a max, itβs _still_ counterintuitive when you only have one of two. I keep finding myself using `clamp()` with dummy min or max values so that I can only use it for max or min respectively, which not only adds cognitive overhead, but also pointless computation.
A nice little improvement could be to make the min and max values optional via `none` keywords:
[Before](https://drafts.csswg.org/css-values/#calc-syntax):
```
<clamp()> = clamp( <calc-sum>#{3} )
```
After:
```
<clamp()> = clamp( [ <calc-sum> | none ] , <calc-sum> , [ <calc-sum> | none ])
```
<details>
<summary>
Alternative syntax: Using empty tokens for the omitted argument
</summary>
```
<clamp()> = clamp( <calc-sum>? , <calc-sum> , <calc-sum>? )
```
Note that this is different from `clamp( <calc-sum>#{2, 3} )`: we still need empty tokens for the missing arguments, otherwise we wouldn't be able to disambiguate. I.e. `clamp(3rem, 10vh)` would not be valid, it would need to be either `clamp(3rem, 10vh, )` or `clamp( , 3rem, 10vh)`.
If we go that route we'd also need to add an exception to require the comma with empty arguments, per normal grammar specification rules the comma would be omitted, making disambiguation impossible.
When I first posted this I thought going the empty token route would be ideal, as `none` seemed too verbose, but I now think the clarity hit is not worth it, especially if we take the editorial challenges into account.
</details>
Hopefully this is such a small change we may be able to wedge it in css-values-4.
Edit: Agenda+ after discussing it with @fantasai and @tabatkins β this seems like such an easy win and pretty uncontroversial so we could move forwards with hopefully very little call time.
author:
url:https://github.com/LeaVerou
type:Person
name:LeaVerou
datePublished:2023-12-15T15:07:59.000Z
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url:https://github.com/9713/csswg-drafts/issues/9713
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