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We are analyzing https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6915.

Title:
[selectors] `:lang` for documents without content language and for elements of unknown language; consider `:lang("")` over `:not(:lang("*"))` · Issue #6915 · w3c/csswg-drafts
Description:
Brief questions to answer Is :lang("*") really valid selector? (Safari supports it and Chrome accepted Issue 1281157 to implement it.) How to address document that failed to define it&#39...
Website Age:
17 years and 8 months (reg. 2007-10-09).

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🚀🌠 Tremendous Traffic: 10M - 20M visitors per month

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Prices on github.com are in US Dollars ($). They range from $4.00/month to $21.00/month.
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lang, language, content, document, elements, unknown, selectors, issue, notlang, html, documents, css, target, group, sample, cssmeetingbot, sign, selector, element, attribute, mentioned, body, added, commented, discussed, projects, closed, accepted, current, undetermined, http, pseudo, discussion, internationalization, fantasai, tpac, frivoal, matches, member, navigation, resources, pull, requests, actions, security, myfonj, answer, safari, address, langel,

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org/international/articles/language-tags/ rfc2070 org/international/questions/qa-css-lang https org/international/questions/qa css working group undetermined language occur content-language http header css approaches tend contact style maintainer functional pseudo-class document language equivalent i18n-wg full irc log comment metadata assignees defined content language zz` http header csswg resolution approach fails short current safari british english document american english document css' author css features precisely target document region group type projects explicitly mentioned w3cbot mentioned tpac explicit lang attribute `lang=und` matches html document minor issue /flags-unspecified-error resources projects milestone document / pseudo content language `content-language content-language css issue / body discussion opening possibility unknown language document language address document match [selectors] language specific i18n

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How to address document that failed to define it's content language?
Is :lang("*") really valid selector?
Is erroneous "undefined" document language equivalent of or is it something different?
Selectors-4 draft introduces wildcard support (md) in string argument for matching "any" language of given script or region group (like "*-Latn" or "*-ch"), opening possibility (loophole?
Should be HTML or equivalent matched by CSS :lang("") or even :lang()?

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DiscussionForumPosting:
 context:https://schema.org
 headline:[selectors] `:lang` for documents without content language and for elements of unknown language; consider `:lang("")` over `:not(:lang("*"))`
 articleBody:### Brief questions to answer 1. Is `:lang("*")` really valid selector? (Safari supports it and Chrome accepted [Issue 1281157](https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1281157) to implement it.) 2. How to address document that failed to define it's content language? 3. Should be HTML `<el lang=""></el>` or equivalent `<el lang></el>` matched by CSS `:lang("")` or even `:lang()`? (Not yet proposed nor implemented.) 4. Is erroneous "undefined" document language equivalent of `<html lang="">` or is it something different? ### Trivia 1. It seems that there have never been a way for `lang()` functional pseudo-class to precisely target document without defined content language nor element sub-tree set as such with `lang=""` attribute. 2. [Selectors-4 draft introduces wildcard support](https://drafts.csswg.org/selectors-4/#the-lang-pseudo) ([md](https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/blob/da9f4c11ca40e850c22dd8387e4069cb818e702e/selectors-4/Overview.bs#L1896)) in string argument for matching "any" language of given script or region group (like `"*-Latn"` or `"*-ch"`), opening possibility (loophole?) for matching *any **specified** language* value using `:lang("*")` and with conjunction with negation pseudo-class opens possibility to use `:not(:lang("*"))` for targeting elements that belong to "no specified language" from previous point. While plain `"*"` value is not explicitly mentioned in the draft, this reportedly already works in current Safari. 3. Undetermined language occur on any HTML document that does not have explicit `lang` attribute and does not come with `content-language` HTTP header or it's "deprecated nasty" `<meta http-equiv>` counterpart. 4. For marking ~~non-linguistic~~ __unknown language__ content it is advised to use `lang=""` attribute. While it is possible to target it with attribute selector (`[lang=""]`), is does not seem like a right tool and introduces nesting / inheritance problems that `lang()` selector was created for. ### Pseudo-code samples / introductory use cases #### Sample 1: Document without content language ``` HTTP/2 200 OK [no `content-language: xy,zz` HTTP header here] <html [no `lang="xy"]` here> <head> [no `<meta http-equiv="content-language" content="xy,zz">` here] </head> <body> [I want target this document.] </body> </html> ``` #### Sample 2: element with unknown language content ```HTML <html lang="xy"> <body> xyx: <samp lang=""> 000111<var lang="xy">x</var>000 </samp> [I want to target elements with digits and omit elements with letters.] </body> </html> ``` ### Problems Inability to "legally" target specifically undetermined language document or element seems to be quite minor issue, since most CSS approaches tend to start with "common" defaults and progress to language specific with selector of higher specificity. Like #### Sample 3: using specificity or order for refining defaults ```CSS /* pseudo example of common approach for setting language related styles */ /* hand-waving default */ :root { quotes: '"' '"' "'" "'"; } /* specific known language */ :lang(x-whatever) { quotes "→" "←" "☛" "☚"; } ``` However this approach fails short if CSS' author needs to specifically address **poorly marked-up document** lacking any content language hint #### Sample 4: using `body:not(:lang("*"))` for styling "bad" document ```CSS /* Pseudo example "let's put a country flag representing language of the document on it's beginning" */ /* known languages */ body:lang(en-gb)::before { content: url(./flags-gb.svg) / "British English document: "; } body:lang(en-us)::before { content: url(./flags-us.svg) / "American English document: "; } /* [etc] */ /* default for "unknown" */ body::before { content: url(./flags-specified-but-unknown.svg) / "Content language of this document is specified but not included in style sheets - please contact style maintainer. "; font-size: small; color: GrayText; } /* "error message" for "unspecified". topic of this issue */ body:not(:lang("*"))::before { content: url(./flags-unspecified-error.svg) / "This document appears to have no content language specified. If you are it's maintainer fix it ASAP, please. "; }` body:not(:lang("*")) { background-color: var(--bg-error, Canvas); color: var(--fg-error, GrayText); font-family: cursive; } ``` (Think Sample 3 above. Also notice that samples use CSS features not yet widely implemented - pseudo element alternative texts and system colors - but those are not related for the issue in question.) ### Links, resources and notes - my initial [SO question](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/70354616/css-lang-selector-for-elements-in-documents-of-undetermined-language) - thanks onkar ruikar for answer, analysis, discussion, workaround and chromium bugreport - [tweet](https://twitter.com/myfonj/status/1472362381338628099) - https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-lang - https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-no-language - "unknown": `lang=""` / `xml:lang="und"` - "known but non-linguistic": `lang="zxx"`; - https://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/ - [rfc2070: Internationalization of the Hypertext Markup Language](https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2070.txt)
 author:
 url:https://github.com/myfonj
 type:Person
 name:myfonj
 datePublished:2021-12-28T01:19:01.000Z
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 url:https://github.com/6915/csswg-drafts/issues/6915
 context:https://schema.org
 headline:[selectors] `:lang` for documents without content language and for elements of unknown language; consider `:lang("")` over `:not(:lang("*"))`
 articleBody:### Brief questions to answer 1. Is `:lang("*")` really valid selector? (Safari supports it and Chrome accepted [Issue 1281157](https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1281157) to implement it.) 2. How to address document that failed to define it's content language? 3. Should be HTML `<el lang=""></el>` or equivalent `<el lang></el>` matched by CSS `:lang("")` or even `:lang()`? (Not yet proposed nor implemented.) 4. Is erroneous "undefined" document language equivalent of `<html lang="">` or is it something different? ### Trivia 1. It seems that there have never been a way for `lang()` functional pseudo-class to precisely target document without defined content language nor element sub-tree set as such with `lang=""` attribute. 2. [Selectors-4 draft introduces wildcard support](https://drafts.csswg.org/selectors-4/#the-lang-pseudo) ([md](https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/blob/da9f4c11ca40e850c22dd8387e4069cb818e702e/selectors-4/Overview.bs#L1896)) in string argument for matching "any" language of given script or region group (like `"*-Latn"` or `"*-ch"`), opening possibility (loophole?) for matching *any **specified** language* value using `:lang("*")` and with conjunction with negation pseudo-class opens possibility to use `:not(:lang("*"))` for targeting elements that belong to "no specified language" from previous point. While plain `"*"` value is not explicitly mentioned in the draft, this reportedly already works in current Safari. 3. Undetermined language occur on any HTML document that does not have explicit `lang` attribute and does not come with `content-language` HTTP header or it's "deprecated nasty" `<meta http-equiv>` counterpart. 4. For marking ~~non-linguistic~~ __unknown language__ content it is advised to use `lang=""` attribute. While it is possible to target it with attribute selector (`[lang=""]`), is does not seem like a right tool and introduces nesting / inheritance problems that `lang()` selector was created for. ### Pseudo-code samples / introductory use cases #### Sample 1: Document without content language ``` HTTP/2 200 OK [no `content-language: xy,zz` HTTP header here] <html [no `lang="xy"]` here> <head> [no `<meta http-equiv="content-language" content="xy,zz">` here] </head> <body> [I want target this document.] </body> </html> ``` #### Sample 2: element with unknown language content ```HTML <html lang="xy"> <body> xyx: <samp lang=""> 000111<var lang="xy">x</var>000 </samp> [I want to target elements with digits and omit elements with letters.] </body> </html> ``` ### Problems Inability to "legally" target specifically undetermined language document or element seems to be quite minor issue, since most CSS approaches tend to start with "common" defaults and progress to language specific with selector of higher specificity. Like #### Sample 3: using specificity or order for refining defaults ```CSS /* pseudo example of common approach for setting language related styles */ /* hand-waving default */ :root { quotes: '"' '"' "'" "'"; } /* specific known language */ :lang(x-whatever) { quotes "→" "←" "☛" "☚"; } ``` However this approach fails short if CSS' author needs to specifically address **poorly marked-up document** lacking any content language hint #### Sample 4: using `body:not(:lang("*"))` for styling "bad" document ```CSS /* Pseudo example "let's put a country flag representing language of the document on it's beginning" */ /* known languages */ body:lang(en-gb)::before { content: url(./flags-gb.svg) / "British English document: "; } body:lang(en-us)::before { content: url(./flags-us.svg) / "American English document: "; } /* [etc] */ /* default for "unknown" */ body::before { content: url(./flags-specified-but-unknown.svg) / "Content language of this document is specified but not included in style sheets - please contact style maintainer. "; font-size: small; color: GrayText; } /* "error message" for "unspecified". topic of this issue */ body:not(:lang("*"))::before { content: url(./flags-unspecified-error.svg) / "This document appears to have no content language specified. If you are it's maintainer fix it ASAP, please. "; }` body:not(:lang("*")) { background-color: var(--bg-error, Canvas); color: var(--fg-error, GrayText); font-family: cursive; } ``` (Think Sample 3 above. Also notice that samples use CSS features not yet widely implemented - pseudo element alternative texts and system colors - but those are not related for the issue in question.) ### Links, resources and notes - my initial [SO question](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/70354616/css-lang-selector-for-elements-in-documents-of-undetermined-language) - thanks onkar ruikar for answer, analysis, discussion, workaround and chromium bugreport - [tweet](https://twitter.com/myfonj/status/1472362381338628099) - https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-lang - https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-no-language - "unknown": `lang=""` / `xml:lang="und"` - "known but non-linguistic": `lang="zxx"`; - https://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/ - [rfc2070: Internationalization of the Hypertext Markup Language](https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2070.txt)
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